fox business.com / "the independents" thank you for joining us. it has been a great night for us. . lou: good evening, obama administration caught on tape, lyin aut obamacare again. he'll anduman services secretary kathln sebelius today denied that the white house had set a goals of 7 million enrollmentsy march, a project several obama administration officialsriid to deny since december. here is secretary sebelius misstates and misrepresenting the record and the truth to the huffington post disb. >> first of all, that was a cbo congressional budt office predict when was bill was signed, not sure wherehe got their numbers, they are all ove theoard, and you know vice

president looked and said, it may be closer to 5 to 6. neil: here is secretary sebels in herwn words, just last fall. one day before the failed launch of obamacare web sit secretary repeatingame goal, of 7 million people that she first stated, in june of last year. >> i think success looks like at least 7 million people having signed up by the end of march. neil: smc administrator stated ththe same 7 million number in r statements, just two weeks before the secretary made her remarks last septeer. secretary sebelius and her senior staff all declares the me number, the same goal, repeatedly, yet the secretary stillenies the number, and the goal. what is wrong 'this woman?

why did the obama administration to decide to do a classic late friday document dump with the latest obamacare rort, from tavenner's cms, a report requested by speaker john boehner, more than two years ago. the report said quote, we're estimating that 66% of small firms to exper union increases in their premium rates. that is a headline number, a number that translates to anotr headline. million workers, seeing an increase in their premium, leaving white house press secretary jay carney looking for excuses as has become his wont and his way. >> fact that net impact we believe will be positive and report itself states several times i results are incomplete and overstated. overstated. lou: a new number for you, cms

releases latest enrollmen numbers in obamacare with 5 weeks left for open enrollment about 4 million people signed up for healthcare through the affordable caring at. joining us now, dr. mark siegel, proces professor of medicine, let's start with 11 million emoyees who may see their premiums rise, your reaction? >> i think numbers are higher, because. it does not include all of excise taxes or increasing people up to age of6 on your policies it looks at one thing, i want to point-out, ty are getting rid of age differential, if y are older your premiums may be aittle bit lowerbut if you are younger, your premiums are skyrocketing, if you are health you, you pay for those who are sicker and older, that is an entitlement society,

that is where we're headed. you don think that young workers have enough on their backs without paying for someone who has been smoking their career, 50% increase for smoking is aowed in premiums, where i sit in the doctor's was on the, you get every disease imaginable, someone who is young, is paying for someone's lung cancer that is coming from smoking. lou: i find incredible, we're inverting a model, it was if yo@ are healthy and young you would pay a lower premium but not in the neverland of obamacare. the healthy you are the younger you are the more you are going to be paying for those who are older, who need greater care. what sense ds that make? i understand the incentive for government to do it, but it makes no sense in the real world. >> the key phrase here, preexisting conditions, eryone loves that free lunch, we'll

cover everyone, but they d n mention ve you preexisting conditions, someone else is paying for it person who doess not have the preexisting condition is paying for you preexisting condition. lou: a number thatt live in thi, that is there is expression in affordable care act there will be no discrimination, none what so ever. yet, older folks he three to one ratio in terms of their premiu, and rest will be borne by younger premium payers who ar healthier, that looks like out right discrimination. >> it was -- it used to be older people paid more,. lou: i understand but still discrimination. >> it is. and but peopl that get mt discriminated against are the healthy young workers. lou: right, and other part, 80,000 dollars a year, most small businesses onverage will

pay for health care insurance. >> that brings out other heline, they will dump workers we've been sayg that all along, how aou going to afford the policies? we're talking about workers, what about employees, they will say more part-time workers it has already been moving in that direct. lou: a as weelook at what is occurring here, the 4 million number thatas announced by tavenner, tonight. that number means nothing. we don'ttknow how many people are payingor it we don't know -- your reaction? >> i was going to quote sage observer, lou dobbs who said, i don't top steal this, you said before we cam owhat value is there 4 million, i tell new doctor's office just because you sign up on the web site does not mean you are going to make it to doctor office with a policy that works, that'm going to get paid for, government said they give me a voucher, they are not going -- i'm not going to sea patients who come to office

with policies that don't work. if you add aaby, you can't do that rigsow, you deliver the baby you, you cannot add that baby on theolicy under the obamacare. lou: storieshat we are hearing, dodge saying if we -- administration saying if we can get 7 million, if we mitt numbers who will remember? this model, economic model for obamacare up side down. and two trillion dlars over next decade, are at risk if not health sare industry itself. >>'m interested in care, care is in jeopardy, if i can't take care of people with own ebb care, they are not getting -- with obamacare, they are not getting healthcare they that is going to happen, a lot of doctors are getting cut out of the narrow networks as well. lou: quickly, i want touch to the illness, bacteria in transarea, scary stuff, a pol

lio-like virus, its unoffered, it is not understood. it is early, with you more than 20 people have- more than0 peach. >> a ltl0 people. >> a viral group, there is an intral virus, it has been around for decade but it usually gives people a coldr a cough or a pro bronchitis, they all cause paralysis, this has never done this before, we're seeing a cluste in california, i think that is the culprit,. lou: whyould this virus be causing paralysis, and what are the chilling aspts of 20 that is clear doctor been saying for first time the best case is one limb paralyzed if you

contra this rus. >> that is scary, with polio, most people got better, out there, polio was so scary last casen 1979, a lot of times you done get sick,hese cases, does not look le they get better, we could invent a steven king scenarioaybe this is coming out of a biolab, i don't think ha is, i think it is mutation. u: it is different. >> it is different, causing this mutate into a dangerous virus, let's hope that does not spread, so far it has been contained to a small number o cases. lou: no indication that is highly contagious? >> no, the five cas are over a year, we have not seen a big outbreak. lou: terrifying stuff. to put itn blunly. blunbly thank you >> attorney generalolder, raising eyebrs from anyone who believes in t constution, in speech today to attorneys general from the country, holder told the folks from each state

they could choose toefuse to defend certainaws if they deem them discriminatory, those relating to same-sex marriage. fox newsorrespdent shannon dream with our report. >> not his job, to tell us how to do ours. >> reporter: follow attorney general eric holder session that state attorneys general are not obligated to defend their state laws on marriage,any of them are speaking out. >> it almost beens attorneys general w want to sidestep the issues, and basically make policy decisions in what law they defend and wha they don't. >> reporter: speing with a gathers, holder waited back in. >> i move we mus -- believe he must be suspicious on legal classification based solely on sexual orientation.

all a created equal, and entitled to equal opportunity. >> reporter: the top law enforcement tomorrow, calls issues key civil rights issues of 21st century, a comparison that does not sit well with some who live through civil right struggles of 50s and 60s. >> i detest them calls this a civil rights movement. this inot a civil rights movement this is rifle wrong movement. >> -- civil wrong movement. >> accusing holder and president obama for betraying the black community for actively working against traditional fily values. refusing to uphold the law. when you run for attorney general, you are asking to become lyer for the state. you canhen turn around and argueeagainst our crew clines' interest. >> the white house is criticizing a newly passed

measure in air hair would allow businesses to refuse -- in arizona that would all businesses to refuse service customers if forced business owners to violate their own religious convicts. >> my suggestion yesterday it sounded like a pretty intolerant proposed law, i think reflected our views. >> reporter: law stems from cases like new mexico supreme court ruling, that a craig photograph company had no right to refuse to photograph a sameex ceremony, think ising it to thousands in finding telling company it was quote the cost of citizenship that new mexico case has been aealed to u.s. supreme crt. and where the justices are now considering whether or not they will hear the dispute, we'll likely know, anyone within weeks. weeks. lou: shannon thank you, morrow attorney general comments and this administration, we'll take that up with fox newin legal analysts, we're coming right back stay with us.

>> president obama toxic in some parts of the nation, so bubba on the campaign trail. >> ed rollins on why senate republicans mayot mind at all. next.

lou: on wall street, stocks edged lower, dow down 27, nazdaq down 2, s&p lost 5, crude oil down. yield on 10 year, drops t t 2.7%. tesla shares surging 14% after morgan stanly raised price target.

citing automaker's plan battery plant, and macy's and home depot ares up after topping earnings targets. what's app adding free voice calls just day after being acquired by facebook. be sure to liste to my financial repororts three timesa da on say umradio network. bill clinton testing his clout ahead of midterms in 2016, hitting campaign trail in kentucky for mcconnell challenger allison lunde green grimes, joining us now. ed rollins. >> my pleasure. lou: bubba on the campaign trail in kentucky going after the minority leader mitch mcconnell. but history said, mcconnell does wel when bubba comes to town. >> no one votesor an endoement they vote for the candidate, mcconnell has bn majority leader f a long time, minority leader for a long time,

he has produced f kentucky he is a tough person. i can't tell you one personhat he elected and he was very popular, it is just been 18 years since clinton been on a ballot,e couldo i he could raise money but he is not going to make anyone vote for a candidate if they don't want to. lou: grimes was circumstance spec about presidentbama saying she di did not need a serogate coming down, she could speak for herself, another place with the president is an uncongress political force. >> theresident cannot do much for his candidates this time. he has to be on ballot whether or not he wants to because obamacare will be on front and center, it may give senate to republicans. lou: jeb bush is not a fellow a thought with a man with a since of humor but he said he thinks that 2016 will be a little bit tough for anybody named bush or clinton. >> me may behal may -- he may

behalf right, my sense, mrs. clinton if she chooses to run will be more mid in, if -- formidable. >> and afl-cio will spend about 300 million dollars for a biggest -- to go after g.o.p., and midterms in michigan, ohio, pennsylvania wisconsin, and florida. that is a lot of money. >> it is a lot of money, my %-by chamb of commerce andwhat business group, money is prevalent in politics, what they have traditionaly. lou: is that rotten really? >> it can be coming absurd. the key thing that afl-cio said they always had people, a good volunteer program, that may make a difference in a midterm. in a presidential elect 60% turn out, in midterm 40% turn out.

lou: i want to change the subject, ed is a exper on many ings we draw on his expertise all the time but ed is also a 5 time gden glove champion, and tonight is also anniversary of sonny liston clay fight. >> 50 years ago is when was fighting too, i looked a lot different, ahenomenal fight. clay, had a olympic champion, he was brash, he was hat. sonny liston of the most fierce om fighter of his e, he was mob controlled, it was everyone was -- lou: slow down, mob-controlled. >> totally. lou: most of boxing w those days. >> it was. >> he was more so tha most, he learned to fight in missouri state prison, he came out, went

on probation, beat up two cops, broke one cop's leg, nt back in to probation. >> reporter: hh learned to fight well. >> they said that sonny's check s carved up about 2 50%, none went to him it went to various bsters that owned him. him. lou: franky a hit man for the mob owned a majority of the contract. >> he was out. and this fight there was a lot of suspicions, ali are not as great a fighter at this . in time, but when liston lost, people said, that fix is in many stillelve that. lou: all right, well, thankou ed. >> my pleasure. lou: great, always get your perspective on everything. >> thank youery much. lou: thank you. government reporting hat volunteerism has dropped to lowest level in a decade,25 percent of americans, spent time volueering. that is nearly 63 million of us. we have news organizations

running around decryin the decline in voluntary implement by the way. that is pretty good, isn't it? stand up america. up next. liberal "new york times" @%plauding president bush. and his policies on ukraine. and questioning president obama's. col an ralph peters our next guest. announcer: where can an investor be a name d not a number? scotade. ron: i'm never alone with scottrade. i can always call or stop by my local office. they're nearby and ready to help. so when i have questions, i can talk to someone who knows exactly how i trade. because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. that's why i'm with scottrade. announcer: ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-direed services by j.d. power and associates.

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lou: the formation of unity govement in raine has been delayed until thursy, cntry trying to put together 35 billion of financial aid to avoid default, dramatic images of riot police, falling to their knees asking fororgiveness for their colleagues who put and shot, beat, and shot and killed antigovement protesters, former presidentanukovich wanted for murder is still missing, ralph peters, good to have you here. let's start with first of all, the administration, "new york times", criticizing the

adnistration saying, if w we have this full screen, i would like to put it up. george w. busas inspired by orange revolutn of 2004, weeks later vowed toromote democry, president obama approached revolution of 2014 with a more clinicaletac detachmentimed at avoiding instability. about has close "new york times" come to a condemn nation of this administration's policies. >> this is damning, difference is, straight forward. george w. bush believed in the democracy. obama is uncomfortable with it, it has been good to him, he is psyclogically falls in a third world model of one man, one vote, one time. and right now you can tell he is frustrated thahat someone so brilliant, as he is has to put up with elections, he also i

think, feels that he feels ukraine is within russia's smear of influence is tragic. i think he fea putin is avis rally level -- avis rall visceral level. and ukrainians having to struggle without at least moral support from u.s. government. lou: is it your judgment, five than e.u. is leading on ukraine, if they do bring aid forward, united states, quickly responds, is it possible that ukraine could stand up and be brought to the european union in rather than reattached to russia? is there a possibility a greater possib that's country will be divid in half? >> i think three possibities, they are that possibilities. one is that ukraine within the borders somehow pulls a rabbit out of the h and joins the ue,

and other is that putin gah gobbles it up but unfortunately, i think in mide, that is putin stages a provocation or finds a reason to intervene militarily at least in eaatern ukraine. in south. where ethnic russian population, russian-speaking population is predominant. lou: susan rice warned russia not to do that, surely they would not do that despite her warning? >> yeah, i was struck. when she said that on sunday television show, that set off alarm bells, as a former intelligence officer, she was stirri a hornet'sest iesttest in that no -- nest that no one else is messing with, that tl us we've seen them to the border going to height know states of alert, putin is still deciding what he can do, what he c do,

his best approach, ukraine is not out of the woods, putin is proud, he feels humiliated. he is furious, he wants t hurt ukraine. and he certainly wants to grab his much of it has heanor his reborn russian empire. lou: to the proposed cuts to pentagon budget. vice president chaney, -- dick chen last night, saying, that president obamaould rather spent money on food sfasms tha stamps than on military, how drastic are they there they are drastic, problem is that, there is no coherent mitary strategy behind them. you put the system, he is saving, -- hagel saving, one he is cutting, you put that together they -- the pieces don't fit, they are not good against china, they can't do counte insurgency, they are all

over the place this budget is not a military budget,t say political budget. and what it does, punishes troops, to preserve profits for favored contractors, and. it is not about military readiness, there is one thing i will say, everyone is talking about robert gates book, duty, a few he read it, if y read it, you see, it obama has a deep suspicicion of, alowingg of our military -- a loathing of our military. that is what comes across this is a left punishing military, mihaping it and by the way the cut to army are worse than taking uss back to 10, because today's modernntechnology. lou: republicans then, have a responsibility, if they permit a president because he is a liftest as a suspicion or a loathing ofilitary, that is uncontion able to be motivating,

colonel thank you. >> thank you, lou. lou: first lady michelle obama's war on childhood obesity, a ban on junk food and soda ads in schools, her latest proposal to lit school lunch portion sizes failed because stupes complained about hunger -- studented complained about hunger pangs, we'll be righback stay with us. >> obama administration is big on enforcing justome lays. lis wiehl, and mercedes on the constitutional confusion of this administration. in the new new york, we don't back down. we only know one direction up so we're up early. up late. thinking up me-changing ideas, like this: dozens of tax free zones across new york state. move here. expanhere. or start a new business here... and pay no taxes for 10 years. with new jobs, new opportunities

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great to have youoth here. lis wiehl is peculiar for it attorney-general to say. >> when they tell e states what to do is off.

second let law-enforcement and u.s. attney's but they are poised it elected is to defend the constitution in. it is difficult to for a federal entity to tell a state entity which part to dend. lou: that is a process this administration has selected choosing what to enforce a and notry to spread the gospel to the states spacek high-speed becky says if you have an objection you canno upfolded because of that was the case said blacks would have equal rights he would have segregation anwomen could not vote so there are so many laws objectionable meant the state officials said they cannot abide by these they have to be

challenged. >> but that is for the courts to decide. you bring that up to the court how did they decide? because their right to briefs and argue. lou: wh am i missing? due to the separation of powers with the balance of power one attorney-general says to the state's attorney's general this is how i feel. what attitude is that? >> there is a lot of truth. there is the self pre-emption argument you cannot dictate to the state. that is why there is so much objection to what eric holder is saying. but if you have discriminatory bias but the law is writt that way.

>> that happens in the courts that will overturn some of these laws. i don't disaee that we move forward but it is not the attorney general space to make that decision. lou: we have seen six states all democrats refusing to defend a ban on it same-sex marriage. >> it is the equ protecon and argument. people look at a separate part of the argument because all citizens are created equal under the constitution. you cannot target a group to say because you have sexual orientation in you don't have the same rights. >> understood. i completely agree with your sentiment but it is a process for the courts to decide.

it is bias the legal the buffon and change the law. lou: then what is the responsibility of the attorneys general? >> to put force of law. >> then where doe the old bantam? --momentum come? >> momentum has to be started. they don't havehe right to object but they can start the bll bentham for the alogue. >> that hasalready started but from the process point of view i am not sure the attorney general should push this. lou: it is curious to me i cannot understand what this administration thinks. part of me thin it is

entitled what laws to enforce like the take claus but we will are that. the supremeourt will take up the epa. this is did industry shed that has exercised executive action and orders like president clinton and others. he is the first president to say the way i you doing it is to go around coness in direct contradiction of the constitution and how can the suprem court stomachs that? >> ultimately they will say there is a checks and balances judiciary and executive and legislative branch. you cannot allow the executive say i will circumvento do what i want. lou: that is what he is

doing. >> ultimate. that is what will happen and but ultimatelyt will take a lot of time. lou: even fo the expedited process? aughter] civic that doesn't happen with the judiciary. great to see you. lou: former gooldman sachs trader has a new job he will be teaching in daughters economic class at the iversity of chicago. congratulations. a controversial but blockbuster new film son of god already sold half a million tickets and has not been release yet. next. [ female announcer ] who are we? we are thinkers.

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lou: ♪ ♪ >> don't be afra. erything is possible with god. lou: a clip f from the upcoming movie "son of god" hitting theaters this friday after last year's usually successful miniseries the bible also produced by our guest. "sonf god" producers who also plays mary in the movie. good to have y. congratulations and amazing production.

>> thank you. it has been a labor of love. lou: now "s of god" the idea of moving from a miniseries on television t the theater what inspired you? the huge success? >> we were in morocco filming we would watch the daies as said jerry -- jesus meredith began to unfold and a stand-alone cinematic expeence so then we shot additional footage in began editing the film version and that was "son of god". lou: is it nationwide release? >> yes. 3,100 screens. considering last october way

did not know if we would get it distributed at all. three new communities the twentieth century fox said we want to put it out. lou: 3100 is wide. i have numbers but i want to hear the numbers. how many have already been sold? >> story said 500,000 in advance by church groups and some of the every screen goes 7:00 on a thursday night. "son of god." "son of god". "son of god." every screen. lou: tt would assure you that it is a smash hit. what does it take to call it a smash hit? >> the fac jesus is back on

the big screen a success. we have not seenim for tenures or his whole life for 50 years. we know there is a whole generation waitingo see this brought to life. beautifully made and exciting and dramatic and epic and personal. lou: we don't think of that context because what is ne? but 10 years? everybody talks about a secular or he the or pagan society but the interest of jesus, the bible, is absolutely stunning as a tone of the times. >> i think by the media to be honest as if it speaks

for the nation use of with the bible series 100 million people and the bible series a beat hockey in canada. [laughter] >> that is a miracle. [laughter] lou: this a movie starting with ofminiseries there is a lot of controversy. that that is odd there was zero lots of pushed back in the popular media. kohen is as if you're blockbuster success it was brilliant all along. >> but it generated a muh3 larger conversati around the water cooler and kitsch's table. people are talking abou phasing and god and faith

and we hope after friday be talk about jesus. lou: than you. it has to ood asin the world ers to have ad off s unusual >> tooitheralso has husband wife. lou: menu both look like you still need it to. [laughter] ou iss if theyds to say ou iss if theyds to say don't pay attention and y there's this kid. coach calls her a team player. she's kinof special. she makes the whole team better. he's the kind of player that puts the puck, horsehide, bullet. right where it needs to be. coach calls it logistics.

he's a great pass. dendable. a winning team has to have one somebody you can count on. mebody like my dad. this is my dad. somebody like my mom. my grandfather. i'm very pround of him. her. them.

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lou: arizona governor jim drew were contemplating whether to veto the anti-gay bill sent to dusk on monday. faced with the decision and to veto legistion that as denial of service to gays and lesbians or do nothing at all for the bill to become law. the govern is a republican d conservative but it is not clear how she will decide. her conscience and our constitution will guide her to the right course. deserved additional is embraced the constitution on every instance of every public policy issue but leaves the highest respect for individual freedom and the rights of all citizens to equal treatment under our laws.

i address this issue in my book "upheaval" i hope conservatives and reblans alike and democrats can unite behind a consistent and unyielding commitment to our constitution one dash constitution that would dimish in anyway our protection to people rights for all. i am asking all republicans and independents to think about what matters most to us. in my opinion nearly every weissue is best left to the conscience of the individual and the community standard is always high as when we recognize and preserve the individual rights of all citins. sometimes the mos contentious cntroversial policy decisions that we e called upon to make are the easiest of all as they simply follow their conscience and constitution. governor approver said she

will do the right thing and in that case let me say good for you and thank you. we will look at some of your thoughts. and cowers. i added that part. keep your comments coming. mail me at lou@loudobbs.com follow us on twitter go to the facebook page and everyone

gets a free copy of my book "upheaval" to the writers of the comments that we've read on the air. that is it tonight. the will see you tomorrow in the new new york, we don back down. we only know one direction: so we're up early. up late. thinking up game-changing ideas, like this: dons of tax free zones acss new york state. move here. expand here. or start a new business here... and pay no taxes for 10 years. with new jobs, new opportunities and a new tax free plan. there's only one way for your business to go. up. find out if your business can qualify at start-upny.com

lou:. >> to a fourth thouuht to those who weigh in have a clue? welcome to everybody i am neil cavuto should they just arrest them selves? marketing everything we eat because we don't know what we each. what is 80 me they are not changing labels but no very big to provide the labels that they screwed up. now doctors say not so fast.